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+--- Thread: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? (/t-what-new-device-should-i-buy-that-direct-play-s-av1-content)
What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - slymilano - 2023-10-04
I want to buy a device that natively plays AV1 without the need to transcode. Even with any audio codec or PGSSUBs.
I own two shield tv pro's but they don't play av1s and I want to transition over to this new smaller codec.
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - TheDreadPirate - 2023-10-04
Apparently the LOWER end Chromecast with Google TV HD supports AV1 decoding but the higher end 4K models does not. Which is news to me. As a 4K model owner this is annoying.
I'm not aware of any other dongles that currently support AV1. It's rumored that both upcoming CCwGTV refreshes will have AV1 support.
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - bitmap - 2023-10-04
This is a tough request, if I understand correctly, because you're asking for something that supports AV1 decoding (i.e., playback) as well as pretty much every other video and audio codec, plus will play back ASS and PGS subs without transcoding? You might be looking for a unicorn, friend. Playback with PGS subs without transcoding limits your selection to devices generally with custom players, as Roku, webOS, and most other players I'm aware of will NOT support PGS playback without being burned in. Add to that older codecs being dropped, H264 high being a problem for folks who watch older anime, audio channels, Atmos, HDR/DV/profile...
If you're satisfied with 80-90% of that, you could probably find a consumer device that satisfies your needs, but you're cutting it close to finding/building HTPC hardware and running a custom-built OS designed for this purpose to fit your needs. That's gonna be double or more the cost of a consumer device plus the time investment and maintenance...
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - abpjf - 2023-10-26
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something here, but my Shield's JF Android client plays back AV1 natively (no transcoding) without issue; I know because I re-encode almost all my media to AV1 exactly because I get smaller file sizes - and the server is showing that the content is playing direct. I assume I can take it at face value when the Dashboard playback info for a given file says "Direct Playing - The source file is entirely compatible with this client, and the session is receiving the file without modifications."
EDIT II: Another confirmation that AV1 is playing back natively on the Shield is that it won't apply the AI Upscaling to that format, whereas it would/does if/when it's transcoded to say HEVC or h264.
Conversely, the server also correctly indicates the same AV1 file(s) being transcoded when it's being played back on something like the LG WebOS JF app that some of my external users use.
To clarify, I have my JF client set to always ask if I want to use an external client (VLC) for playback, so technically I guess VLC is playing it back on the Shield without transcoding, which doesn't really matter. The TLDR is that the Shield seems to be perfectly capable of playing AV1 natively via VLC.
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - Deleted User - 2023-10-26
(2023-10-26, 01:16 AM)abpjf Wrote: To clarify, I have my JF client set to always ask if I want to use an external client (VLC) for playback, so technically I guess VLC is playing it back on the Shield without transcoding, which doesn't really matter. The TLDR is that the Shield seems to be perfectly capable of playing AV1 natively via VLC.
afaik Shield doesn't support hardware decoding of AV1 - VLC is likely using software decoding, which is not always good but depends on what you're playing
you can confirm by checking the cpu usage via adb shell with the 'top' command while playing something
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - abpjf - 2023-10-26
(2023-10-26, 01:43 AM)000 Wrote:(2023-10-26, 01:16 AM)abpjf Wrote: To clarify, I have my JF client set to always ask if I want to use an external client (VLC) for playback, so technically I guess VLC is playing it back on the Shield without transcoding, which doesn't really matter. The TLDR is that the Shield seems to be perfectly capable of playing AV1 natively via VLC.
afaik Shield doesn't support hardware decoding of AV1 - VLC is likely using software decoding, which is not always good but depends on what you're playing
you can confirm by checking the cpu usage via adb shell with the 'top' command while playing something
hardly makes any change in CPU usage vs idle, 1%-3%tile, within the realm of nonexistent or margin-of-error. which pretty much comes back to it making no real difference how it's playing it back "natively" - my takeaway is that if JF server says it's feeding direct, then I take it for granted that it is direct. I (granted, subjectively) see no qualitative difference when it's playing "direct" via JF+VLC on the Android client vs playing the file on an RTX-4x/ARC-7x equipped desktop PC.
interesting though that it (JF) makes no distinction as to whether something is being "directly" played back via SW or HW decoding. I guess the long and short of it, in my view at least, is that 'what does it really matter whether AV1 is playing back via SW or HW decoding' - especially if JF itself sees no distinction vis a vis its definition of "direct playback."
as long as I don't get stutters / dropouts, why worry for nothing?
EDIT: if it matters, the specific content being used for the above discourse is an episode of 'The Winter King' encoded via Handbrake (latest version) in 1080p AV1 @ a reported average bitrate of 3200kbps with an E-AC3 DD5.1 track and .ass subs (if activated), re-encoded on an ARC-750.
EDIT II: I did putz around with a couple of different 'off brand' Android STBs that use various HW-decode AV1 chipsets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Hardware) and they both SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED royally on AV1 playback. Freezes / dropouts / stutters galore... Even using the VLC-handoff method. The fact that they seemed to enforce HW decoding (vs trying SW or someway to choose SW) was a big detriment in that case.
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - abpjf - 2023-10-26
random rumination:
an Iris XE iGPU-equipped laptop is perfectly serviceable as an AV1-capable (HW decode) HTPC. considering a new Shield Pro runs $200, you can likely get an old 1165G7-equipped laptop on ebay for around that price; pair it with this 'gyro mouse' (https://www.amazon.com/W10-GYRO-Keyboard-Controller-Learning/dp/B078NT49MJ/)[I use a couple myself and they're fabulous, albeit not ergonomically shaped] and you've got yourself something that's arguably more capable and versatile than even a Shield.
but again, the Shield with JF+VLC seems to do just fine for AV1, so there's that...
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - bitmap - 2023-10-26
Quote:Conversely, the server also correctly indicates the same AV1 file(s) being transcoded when it's being played back on something like the LG WebOS JF app that some of my external users use.
The LG C1 will direct play AV1 through the webOS app. AV1 is a large and growing portion of my library and I'm shocked at the amount of devices will direct play AV1...frustratingly the Roku I purchased to do so does not.
RE: What new device should I buy that direct play's AV1 content? - abpjf - 2023-10-26
(2023-10-26, 06:45 AM)bitmap Wrote:Quote:Conversely, the server also correctly indicates the same AV1 file(s) being transcoded when it's being played back on something like the LG WebOS JF app that some of my external users use.
The LG C1 will direct play AV1 through the webOS app. AV1 is a large and growing portion of my library and I'm shocked at the amount of devices will direct play AV1...frustratingly the Roku I purchased to do so does not.
That's good to know! I guess my users are on other models that don't have the horsepower.
Yeah, I got past the "AV1 via HW decode only!" hump really quickly once I realized plenty of devices do SW decode of it just fine without any apparent hit to quality or performance.