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+--- Thread: Starting Over - Looking for Info (/t-starting-over-looking-for-info)
Starting Over - Looking for Info - THRobinson - 2024-12-12
Been using XBMC/KODI for... wow, 10-15yrs? A long time... and never been 100% happy with it, and lately find if I post for help I never get a response so, thinking time for a change, for both (possibly) software and (definitely) hardware. Been hearing a lot about Jellyfin and watched YouTube vids, but what I specifically want to know, I haven't found information about so thought I'd ask here.
What I have now...
I have a WD MyCloudEX2 NAS with 2x4TB drives setup as JBOD (not RAID) and one drive is Movies, the other Television. I run a mirror backup of each drive every few months and keep the backups in drive cases on a shelf. Simple, quick, and reliable. I've read too many posts where the RAID messes up and won't restore drives, or the NAS itself dies and drives encrypted and can't use again until formatted etc... this avoids all that. Works great but not as robust as a Synology... no real apps or anything. I just have mapped network drives to each HDD on my desktop PC.
I started using MediaCompanion this year. Each movie is in it's own folder, each folder contains the nfo file, artwork, subtitle srt file. Television is about the same, every show is in a folder, each season has a sub folder, and all artwork/nfo files in there, and a sub-folder names subs in each season with srt files.
2 TVs, and a laptop using KODI. The TVs each have Android boxes running CoreElec bypassing the Android OS and booting directly to KODI. KODI is setup to scrape the NAS for new files at startup using local info only on the NAS. I was told this would be the best way and faster and well, it no longer scrapes incorrect data, and all info/artwork on all systems match which is great. If I have to rescrape the whole thing, it's works great as well... but when it scraped using TMDB and stored info on the Android box itself, scrape at startup was a minute, now it's about 5-7min.
Anyways, that's the basic setup. PC, NAS, and 2 x Android Boxes all connected with Cat6 ethernet, and 1 laptop on WiFi. Even large x265 4k 10bit SDR files, 10MB/s bitrate, 15GB in size play without any issues. One TV is older and no HDR so I try to only use BT.709 SDR files for 4K, but 95% of what I have is 1080p 10bit SDR around 4000kbps bitrate.
TV has a bad screen now and needs replaced and I just replaced the livingroom TV. Mine had Roku OS, but will have Google, and the TV I just got also has Google OS.
My Beelink android box died and I grabbed a newer HK1-Rbox that's just a flakey mess with freezing issues, hangs at shutdown, etc. So it needs replaced.
The Point
So, now knowing what I have... I'm wondering if JellyFin is right for me.
My plan was to replace the awful HK1 box with an N100 mini-PC. I was eyeing up one with 16GB DDR5 and a 512GB MM2 drive. I was going to switch to LibreElec and basically have the same setup I have now but, if the other box dies, I don't want to buy another N100 because it gets a bit pricey.
I'm wondering
- Can I install Win11 on the N100, and setup mapped network drives like I have on my Desktop PC, and when setting up Jellyfin Server. just point to my Y:\Movies and Z:\Television drives?
- Can I tell JellyFin to use the local info or would I need to delete all my artwork/nfo files and have JellyFin do it all?
- Since the N100 will sit beside my primary TV and NAS, can I connect the HDMI direct from the N100 to the TV and play movies from it? Since the N100 has hardware decoding for 264/265/AV1? and on the living room TV install a Jellyfin app on the GoogleOS and no longer need the android box at all?
- On my Desktop PC, I have a SHARE folder. When I compress files with Handbrake I dump the files there first, and KODI connects to it, not as a Movie or TV folder, just a video folder that doesn't get scraped. I use it to test videos before dumping to the NAS to see if they work, how they look, if I need to adjust compression up/down etc... can I connect JellyFin in the same way to this folder? Live, unscraped folder that my TV can see but not the living room?
Living room TV is less important. I have a 75' Cat6 ethernet cable running from the ISP Router where the living room TV is connected, and the TPLink (access point) where my TV is connected. Living room is not used as much for the media server stuff and usually just the 1080/720p stuff. My TV is only media server connected, no cable or netflix, prime etc... just the NAS and my PC share drive.
Long I know, but wanted to give an idea of what I have and what I want to do with it. Basically, I like my current setup with KODI but, I do need to replace some hardware, the TVs will all now be smart TVs with HDR 4K, KODI's support is lacking and always have issues, and if I can reduce the amount of hardware I have, great.
Will also mention, I have MX3 bluetooth remotes for screen control, plus the TV remotes. The bluetooth remotes work with KODI out of the box. Also, just media player... not games or anything like that/ Nice bonus but after 10-15yrs I've never had the urge to play any games on KODI and likely won't going forward either.
RE: Starting Over - Looking for Info - zackoid - 2024-12-12
That's a lot of text and I'm tired so I will probably miss a lot of your questions. But basically yes.
Libreelec isn't a great platform for hosting the server, its better as a client platform. When they call it a "just enough" OS they aren't kidding, it is missing a lot of things that you'd want for managing a server. I know libreelec used to have docker installable through an add-on, but I'm not sure if they still do.
You can host both the client and server on the same device, though as described above there isn't a great OS for both use cases since they are so different.
Jellyfin will use the NFO files and (if named correctly) the cover images.
RE: Starting Over - Looking for Info - THRobinson - 2024-12-13
@zackoid yup... wanted to make sure people knew what I had, where I was going... though ended up being rather long winded. Just didn't want a bunch of questions about each component.
I think where JellyFin and Plex confuse me is, what do they do? seems like Kodi with adding art and info, but, Kodi was just point at a folder and done. None of the server/client part so, kinda confused by what the server does? I saw a YouTube vid that in passing mentioned compression for portable devices and such? May be handy for the laptop in my equation, but for the two TVs connected with ethernet, I was full quality used.
I was looking at the N100 mini-pc's because of the chip for 264/265/Av1 and 4K output, but if the server is doing all the 'work' does the client power really matter? Like, basically, would the video quality I see on my TV be better using an N100 mini PC as the client? or would it be the same if I use a Google app on the TV itself, since I'm assuming the TV onboard computer won't be near as powerful.
I just upgraded my system at home, and have an old PC now that I was going to sell, but maybe would be better as the server? (SPECS) and then just use the Google apps on the smart TVs in ditch having boxes altogether? (side note, the Xeon is basically a 4th gen i7, and the socket will hold an i7 CPU as well). PC will (if I do this) sit beside the TV basically so could also use HDMI to the TV instead of ethernet.
My concern is really only with the BIG movies. The 15GB files with 10,000kbps, 4k, HDR 10bit... I want those to play as I encoded them, not compressed, blocky and stuttering.
RE: Starting Over - Looking for Info - fflam - 2024-12-14
I am fairly new to Jellyfin, and media server in general, so I am hoping my fresh user experience will help you a little.
Quote: I think where JellyFin and Plex confuse me is, what do they do? seems like Kodi with adding art and info, but, Kodi was just point at a folder and done. None of the server/client part so, kinda confused by what the server does?On the most basic over simplified level, Jellyfin is essentially a self hosted streaming service. The server creates a website that you can log into from most any web browsers and stream your movies, just like any other streaming service. There are multiple native clients that will connect to your server so you don't have to use the web interface, of if that is not possible on that device (Roku, android, full list in the Jellyfin client download page), in most cases like windows desktop the client is optional. You can chose to use the web interface or the App.
Quote: - Can I install Win11 on the N100, and setup mapped network drives like I have on my Desktop PC, and when setting up Jellyfin Server. just point to my Y:\Movies and Z:\Television drives?
Yes, My server is running on Debian, but it has 4 separate network shares. everything form Samba, NFS, and ISCSI, (I was playing around learning things don't judge!). On the Jellyfin server you can create Libraries, the default Movie, TV, etc. you just tell Jellyfin that Y:\Movies gets put into the Movies Library and it will scan and populate the list for you. This work with Video, music, and apparently Images, as well as books and such. I have only used it for video files, so I cant speak on the other functions.
Quote: - Can I tell JellyFin to use the local info or would I need to delete all my artwork/nfo files and have JellyFin do it all?
Jellyfin does use the nfo files associated with the media, there are options so safe image paths and such, There is also an option to upload your own images to associate with a particular file. I have not played with this enough to know if you can auto import all of your artwork from the start or not.
Quote: - Since the N100 will sit beside my primary TV and NAS, can I connect the HDMI direct from the N100 to the TV and play movies from it? Since the N100 has hardware decoding for 264/265/AV1? and on the living room TV install a Jellyfin app on the GoogleOS and no longer need the android box at all?
I am a bit lost, I assume that the N100 will be the Jellyfin server? if so Sure I don't see why not. Jellyfin is software that runs in the background, so I supposed if you connect to local host from the app or web browser it should work. Some one with more knowledge would be able to answer this one better, but I don't see why it would not work.
Quote: - On my Desktop PC, I have a SHARE folder. When I compress files with Handbrake I dump the files there first, and KODI connects to it, not as a Movie or TV folder, just a video folder that doesn't get scraped. I use it to test videos before dumping to the NAS to see if they work, how they look, if I need to adjust compression up/down etc... can I connect JellyFin in the same way to this folder? Live, unscraped folder that my TV can see but not the living room?
Not sure this would be done in the same manor as you are doing it now. again someone with more experience may be able to answer this better. But if I was doing something like this, I would have a main "admin" user, and then either a user for each device, or just a 2nd user that logs into all the other devices. You could then set the admin user to have access to a "Test Library", and that library points to a folder on your Desktop PC. once the file is there, Jellyfin scans it and its available for viewing to only users that have access to that library. once you verify you can move the media to the NAS and Jellyfin will see it there and do its thing. There may be a better way, but that's the only way I can think of.
So from doing a quick search on KODI (never used it before), KODI and Jellyfin/Plex are fundamentally different types of software. From what i understand, KODI is more of a media player, it is the software that reads the media file, and then produces the video for you to watch. Where Jellyfin is a media server. Jellyfin manages all of the media, the organization, metadata, etc. and then "live feeds" that file to a client that is only responsible for putting the image on the screen (ok much more complicated then that but at the lowest general level). Jellyfin will automatically trans code a video to what ever resolution/bitrate the client requests. so if the server is hosting a 4k video with Atmos audio, but you are watching it on a small android phone, it will trans code it on the fly to a reasonable resolution and audio bitrate. this also mean where with KODI (as far as i can tell, let me know if I'm wrong) every device needs access to the share folders, where with Jellyfin, only the server has, and needs access to the NAS
I have been using Jellyfin for almost 6 months now and I have had multiple users watching things from multiple locations with no issues. I have also played video on anything from an old Roku, Chromebox, even things like a Steam Deck, no install required, just go to a website and log in.
I hope this helped.
RE: Starting Over - Looking for Info - THRobinson - 2024-12-16
@fflam
So, it sounds like the opposite of Kodi... where with Kodi, my NAS is just 2 hard drives on the network, no OS or processing/decoding, and the quality of video is based on obviously a good file/source, but also the power of the client computer attached to the TV. An N100 mini PC would decode and display a large video file better than using a Kodi app installed on a smart TV.
Jellyfin, the server with the media files, does all the work? Using the Jellyfin app on a smart TV will work just as well as an N100 running the app?
I think that's where I'm mostly unclear. My concern is having a large 4K video on the server with a 10,000kbps bitrate and HDR colour, and it streams and looks about the same as a 1080p 4,000kbps video... phones/tablets, whatever... I can see why it'll compress for those, but on a 65" 4K HDR TV, I want to make sure I'm getting full quality from the files.
Again, my personal TV would be within feet of the access point router, and everything Cat6 ethernet... sadly a mix of 1GB and 2.5GB connections so, likely run at the slowest 1GB, which should still be fast enough I would think for full quality of the bigger files.
My old PC I am thinking may be a good candidate for a server. Xeon E3-1231 v3, which is about the same as an i7-4770 (no iGPU) with 16GB DDR3 and a GTX1060 6GB.
I have mirror backups of my NAS drives, which will come in handy... and my PC has a hot-swappable SATA bay for drives, also very handy.
I guess I'd install Win10 to the SSD drive (C:\) because I know squat about Linux. Also take the 2x4TB drives out of the NAS and I guess format NTFS and copy all my files back over from backups. Set Jellyfin up on that PC as a server and once all done, all it needs is a power cable and an ethernet jack. Set BIOS to auto-restart if power outtages, and since I live in the country, I'd definitely have to. Setup share drives like I have now so on my main PC I can dump files to the Jellyfin server.
What I don't get though is, how does the server update?
When I turn on Kodi, it scrapes the NAS looking for new files added. With Jellyfin server, do I need to access it constantly to update? or will it just detect files on its own and update? I don't want to have a server that I have to connect to the TV and constantly open up with a wireless keyboard to scrape and update... maybe can be done remotely on my new PC with the browser?
The GTX1060 is in my new PC right now, until hopefully boxing week when I buy a new 4070Super... so until then, the old PC can't be used so can't play around with this stuff yet.
RE: Starting Over - Looking for Info - fflam - 2024-12-16
I will try to answer your quest the best I can, like i said I am still fairly new to Jellyfin but have ran servers for years so i understand what it does just not the specifics on how it does it. If you know what I mean.
So as for hardware, I for example am running Jellyfin in a Proxmox LXC container. The server had dual Intel® Xeon® CPU E5-2690 v3 @ 2.60GHz, and 256GB ram (basically 48 cores 256 GB ram, from CPUs around 10 years old give or take). The container however only is given 8 cores and 32GB ram however. and i am sure if you ask anyone here that really knows about JellyFin and its requirements that is probably overkill, by a long shot. I also put an Intel ARC A310 gfx card in the server to off load all of the video trans coding. Other then set up issues (not a Jellyfin issue but a bug in the Linux kernel for intel GPU support at the time) everything has worked great. So the computer you mentioned should be more then sufficient to run a server. the RTX 1060 should be sufficient for most trans coding as well.
As for you NAS, you should not have do change that in any way. on your Jellyfin server just mount the drives, then in the Jellyfin interface point to the folder your video media is in and Jellyfin does the rest. so as long as the OS that the Jellyfin server is able to mount, and read the video off of your NAS everything should work as is.
Quote: What I don't get though is, how does the server update?
When I turn on Kodi, it scrapes the NAS looking for new files added. With Jellyfin server, do I need to access it constantly to update? or will it just detect files on its own and update? I don't want to have a server that I have to connect to the TV and constantly open up with a wireless keyboard to scrape and update... maybe can be done remotely on my new PC with the browser?
By update I am assuming you mean adding files to your Librarys, and such, not updating the server software.
So Jellyfin support automated tasks. some of the defaults are things like scan for new media, extract keyframes, etc. and you can set these to run as often as you would like. I have my server scan for new media every hour, and do things like trickplay, keyframes, and metadata scraping every 24h. You can also start any of these tasks manually when ever you want. To trigger a job manually I find it the easiest to just log on to the web interface with the admin account and 2 or 3 clicks later I am scanning the library. I have done this from my android phone, laptop, desktop, really anything that has a web browser "should" at least get into the admin menu and click the start task button.
Quote: The GTX1060 is in my new PC right now, until hopefully boxing week when I buy a new 4070Super... so until then, the old PC can't be used so can't play around with this stuff yet.
Sure it can, install windows, then RDP into the server should not need a gfx card. Though might have to get a little tricky with the initial install. I know some of those older computers with Xeon CPUs have basic VGA video out on the motherboard and don't require CPU gfx or an add on card. the only thing you wont be able to do is GPU HW trans coding, but if you are just doing 1 user at a time the CPU should be able to handle the load just fine. 90% of what you will need to do in Jellyfin can be done via the web interface. The only thing you need to access the main OS for is Initial setup, Updating Jellyfin, and tweaking settings. I have not touched my OS in 1 to 2 months.
Quote: Jellyfin, the server with the media files, does all the work? Using the Jellyfin app on a smart TV will work just as well as an N100 running the app?
I think that's where I'm mostly unclear. My concern is having a large 4K video on the server with a 10,000kbps bitrate and HDR colour, and it streams and looks about the same as a 1080p 4,000kbps video... phones/tablets, whatever... I can see why it'll compress for those, but on a 65" 4K HDR TV, I want to make sure I'm getting full quality from the files.
This is the Big question, and the one I have the least technical knowledge about. but i will use my setup as an example.
You are partly correct here. Jellyfin is the server with ACCESS to the media files, the files do not have to be on the server it self. I have multiple NAS supplying media to my Jellyfin server, Your current NAS setup should work perfectly fine.
Also the Jellyfin server does not do ALL of the video work, but can do some/most of it. for example, lets take your 10k kbps HDR video, if you are watching that file on a modern gaming computer with HDR monitor, and the power to watch it in all of its glory, then Jellyfin does next to nothing and simply sends the data over the network and your computer does the heavy lifting. Again Jellyfin is probably doing something here, but at your end it will/should be in Full HDR glory. Jellyfin refers to this as Direct play mode. Now if you play this same file on, say a chrome book, the chrome book is not capable of playing that file to its fullest extent (OK, some might be, but not the $100 chrome books people buy for school, etc.). Jellyfin at this point will start to on the fly transcode that video down to what ever resolution, and audio format that it thinks will be best for the chrome book based on network, and computer hardware. This transcode is stored in a temporary folder that gets deleted after a given amount of time (that you can set your self). Also like any other streaming service you can manually override what settings are chosen and chose a higher, or lower resolution. So the client device will still have to process the video, but the video it is sent is custom tailored to the device that is accessing the Jellyfin server.
Now if the TV app or the n100 mini PC would be better for your TV, I cant really say. I would suspect that the n100 is far more powerful then the TV processing, so the TV may try to transcode the video down so it can process the file. Most "smart" TVs in my experience are more of a gimmick then anything. they tend to have under powered hardware, and lose support far to quickly, but that is another subject. I know on the new 4k Roku I have seen no noticeable issues running 4k remote over the internet. At the same time, I can 100% say you care far more about video quality then I do, because if its not a pixelated mess its fine to me, that is all personal preference.
Hope that helps, if you want a more detailed explanation of how and why about bitrate stuff, someone else will have to step in, because that is out of my wheel house.